tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12380553.post7167395222463453293..comments2024-03-28T14:49:36.133-04:00Comments on John Kenneth Muir's Reflections on Cult Movies and Classic TV: Sci-Fi on Trial: A Survey of Crime and Punishment in the Cult TV Legal SystemJohn Kenneth Muirhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15629979615332893780noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12380553.post-7283571446316327132010-10-19T19:29:23.800-04:002010-10-19T19:29:23.800-04:00Grayson,
I think your perception is accurate. I ...Grayson,<br /><br />I think your perception is accurate. I remember being at a convention in the early 2000s and everyone loving TNG while not TOS so much. I think that time-period represents the height of TNG's popularity, and it has been downhill since.<br /><br />The series simply hasn't aged well, whereas Star Trek -- now in High Def -- just doesn't seem to get old.<br /><br />Regarding The Social Network, now I am very interested in seeing it, given your recommendation. <br /><br />I am a huge and longtime admirer of David Fincher as well. I once almost got a book dealto write Movies that Scar: The Films of David Fincher, but things fell apart at the last minute. <br /><br />I adore all his films, from Alien 3 and Se7en to Fight Club and Zodiac. Maybe I'll make Fincher the next target of my director summer retrospective...<br /><br />Thanks again for the comment,<br />JohnJohn Kenneth Muirhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15629979615332893780noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12380553.post-10482187485773227002010-10-19T18:16:59.394-04:002010-10-19T18:16:59.394-04:00John,
It is really weird, but in the late 1990s /...John,<br /><br />It is really weird, but in the late 1990s / very early 2000s (pre-<b><i>Star Trek: Nemesis</i></b>) I had the feeling that NextGen was slightly more popular with ST fans than TOS. I have no way to quantify this but I seemed to gather that was the consensus on the Internet boards while Voyager was on the air. Post-Nemesis I feel that positive opinions of NextGen (minus the cast) have gone down considerably.<br /><br />-----<br /><br />I highly recommend <b><i>The Social Network</i></b>. It is my favorite film of the 2000s.Graysonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12380553.post-65083296048473224262010-10-19T13:52:33.479-04:002010-10-19T13:52:33.479-04:00Thank you, Peter, for the kind words.
I agree wit...Thank you, Peter, for the kind words.<br /><br />I agree with you that Star Trek had to walk a balance between portraying that positive, paradisical future, and maintaining the "humanity" of the characters. I suspect our barometers all point to different places in terms of the franchise's success or failure in that regard.<br /><br />I look fondly at TOS and DS9, situations where the characters live in an improved future, but still grapple with human concerns and human inconsistencies. Even Kirk (with his prejudice against Klingons) isn't a white knight.<br /><br />In TNG, you get the feeling the characters are rarely, truly tested. "Q Who" is a powerful exception, where they get a "kick" in their complacency. I love that episode, because for once it isn't Picard doing the lecturing. It's easy to lecture other species, I always say, when you live in paradise.<br /><br />But deprive Riker or Picard of paradise, and are they still heroes? That's the question TNG never really got to, in my opinion.<br /><br />Thank you for a great comment, my friend!<br /><br />best,<br />JKMJohn Kenneth Muirhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15629979615332893780noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12380553.post-42860443376742516302010-10-19T00:04:25.535-04:002010-10-19T00:04:25.535-04:00What an awesome treat to read this comprehensive o...What an awesome treat to read this comprehensive overview of sci fi crime and punishment! I felt like I was reliving the individual episodes--complete with the shivers I felt when they were reading Kirk's commendations.<br /><br />It really is unfortunate that all of Star Trek's officers are white knights, immune from the taint of the world. But it's also this message of hope and human goodness which was responsible for the franchise's success. In the same way that Star Trek has this unreality about its characters, I was always disturbed by the fact that there was no economy--no scarcity. Contrast this to Babylon 5's constant economic shortfalls and numerous instances of corruption and unusual legal customs.<br /><br />This review was a true pleasure to read. Thank you! <br /><br />petePetehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05304391238021068916noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12380553.post-71964212046426468322010-10-18T12:57:20.426-04:002010-10-18T12:57:20.426-04:00Ah, precisely my friend. Sci-fi opera was the ord...Ah, precisely my friend. Sci-fi opera was the order of the day in ST:TNG and your reasons why it doesn't hold a candle are exact. I, likewise agree with master Muir. <br /><br />Those science fiction concepts survived the rewrites as you mentioned. This is exactly the case with Space:1999. The writing survived thanks to folks like Johnny Byrne. While the material was darker and more brooding, less colorful than Star Trek, which made it less accessible in retrospect, it's still a huge success for fans of science fiction stories like ourselves.<br /><br />Ironic that Fred Freiberger would go for the colorfully entertaining route by passing the science fiction concepts in favor of entertainment value for Season Three of ST:TOS and Season Two of Space:1999. We like those seasons, but they begin veering off into science fiction opera with notable exceptions that survived.<br /><br />Exactly, we can sit down and enjoy those programs from the era because story was the strength of it.<br /><br />I agree that we are partial to the classics and perhaps there is a nostalgic link to our childhoods, but I think we're sharp enough to differentiate quality science fiction from guiding light in space. I'm kidding a bit there. I know it's not that bad.<br /><br />But really, you're right, it wasn't all that profound upon its arrival and it doesn't hold up all that well for a reason, it's just not that good. <br /><br />I'm finding that out very quickly and the condescending scriptwriting isn't nearly as thoughtful as the Original Series. It just is not.<br /><br />ST:TNG makes you realize how amazing the TOS was and though I look forward to the stronger entries you mentioned it won't be enough to change my mind.<br /><br />I finished Season One and was almost bored. Thanks for the thoughtful commentary John. It inspired additional remarks because this is a very interesting historical topic when it comes to science ficton programming.<br /><br />Thanks so much my friend<br />SFFSFFhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04256589316922398158noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12380553.post-53702499831419573412010-10-18T10:19:34.596-04:002010-10-18T10:19:34.596-04:00Hi Grayson,
Thank you for a great comment. Did yo...Hi Grayson,<br /><br />Thank you for a great comment. Did you like The Social Network? I haven't seen it, but I'm intrigued by your description of it as being somewhat Rashomon-esque. I will definitely catch it on Netflix, which is how I see most movies now that I have a little kid and don't get out much! :)<br /><br />You also raise an interesting question about literary sci-fi using the trial concept. That's probably worth a survey, and I don't have a good answer at this point, either!<br /><br />And thanks for the mention of The Undiscovered Country. It would have been fascinating to see the trial of Admiral Cartwright! (And here's an example of the original franchise incarnation taking chances, making Spock's assistant Valeris and a pre-established, likable Starfleet admiral a conspirator!)<br /><br />All the best,<br />JKMJohn Kenneth Muirhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15629979615332893780noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12380553.post-71848946523782091532010-10-18T10:16:24.624-04:002010-10-18T10:16:24.624-04:00Sci-Fi Fanatic:
Thank you for that wonderful, el...Sci-Fi Fanatic: <br /><br />Thank you for that wonderful, eloquent comment on my post regarding sci-fi on trial. I agree with every word you wrote. Seriously.<br /><br />I think your point that Star Trek: TOS used science fiction writers is one of vital importance. This really made the difference in terms of thought-provoking concepts. <br /><br />Even though those writers may have been re-written by Coon or Roddenberry, the central, innovative concepts survived (even if the specifics were made to fit the TV format better...). <br /><br />These concepts yet shine...and stimulate.<br /><br />By my taste, The Next Generation lacks these interesting concepts -- by and large -- and plays more like traditional soap opera. <br /><br />We met Worf's Mom and Dad, his Klingon and human brothers, his son, his wife, etc. We met Troi's Mom. We met Picard's brother, etc. We met Riker's dad. <br /><br />They all came aboard to visit the Enterprise and we got, simply, what I call "The Love Boat in Space" stories. <br /><br />And when we weren't getting the Love Boat in space, we got holodeck stories that were mostly off-point, off-message. <br /><br />These are simply soap opera tales set in space, not innovative science fiction concepts about exploring space.<br /><br />Personally, I watch a space adventure for space adventuring, not to see characters "relaxing" or recreating in other time periods. Some of the holodeck stories had value; most did not.<br /><br />This is, honestly, why I rank TNG so low in the historical sci-fi TV pantheon. <br /><br />Even when it did strike on something interesting -- like the Rashomon template of "Matter in Perspective," it played the concept safe; never stretching the characters or universe (or audience).<br /><br />I don't feel this criticism is true of Deep Space Nine (by my memory), Space:1999, Farscape, even SGU or other programs, but I or do feel it of TNG. <br /><br />The ratio of good to bad episodes on TNG is, by my reckoning, something like 1 out of every 5 or 6, especially as we got to the Season 5 and beyond.<br /><br />I guess we all like the Star Trek we grew up with, to some extent, but TNG, by my perception, fails to entertain unless you are already a Star Trek fan. The original series entertains in the way of The Twilight Zone, The Outer Limits or other great programs. You can sit down in front of a segment, even if you aren't a fan, and you'll be transfixed for an hour. This is as true today as it was 20 years ago, and 40 years ago.<br /><br />I don't know anyone, frankly, without encyclopedic knowledge of the Trek universe, who can sit down in front of most TNG episodes, and be entertained. The show is often lecturing and smug, and hectoring, I feel. Why does it not hold up, twenty years after it was made?<br /><br />My answer: it wasn't that good in the first place. It wasn't ahead of its time, like TOS. It was of its time...and now that time is passed. <br /><br />That said, when the magic strikes -- in episodes like "Best of Both Worlds Part I" or "The Offspring" or "Yesterday's Enterprise" -- the show can be very good. I wish there were more episodes like those. But I feel no need to own season sets of TNG because for every "Yesterday's Enterprise" there are three or four "Hero Worships" or "Samaritan Snares" or "Homecoming," or....you get the idea.<br /><br />I went on way to long about one portion of your comment, but I wanted to say thank you for writing and posting such an interesting response to my article.<br /><br />All my best,<br />JKM<br /><br /><br />Thank you for a wonderful comment!John Kenneth Muirhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15629979615332893780noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12380553.post-52560397900828617502010-10-17T17:40:33.138-04:002010-10-17T17:40:33.138-04:00This is one of your most intriguing articles, John...This is one of your most intriguing articles, John. It is especially timely after seeing David Fincher's film <i><b>The Social Network</b></i> which is all about people having different perspectives of what happened.<br /><br />I realize you were limiting the focus to cult/sf TV episodes, but one of my favorite SF trials takes when Kirk and McCoy are accused of assassinating Chancellor Gorkon in <i><b>Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country</b></i>. Here we do have Starfleet officers who conspired to commit murder! Of course, we don't get to see their trial.<br /><br />As far as punishment goes, my vote is for Lt. Beckwith in Harlan Ellison's original script for "The City on the Edge of Forever". Ultimately, the Guardians of Forever would have given the murderous Beckwith the punishment of living his death over and over for an eternity inside a supernova.<br /><br />I wonder if the phenomena of the SF trial is a unique concept to film (and especially) television SF, or has it widely been used in literary SF? Unfortunately I am not as well read in the genre as I would like to be.<br /><br />--GraysonGraysonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12380553.post-40036962197911608312010-10-17T16:13:44.194-04:002010-10-17T16:13:44.194-04:00John,
Let me begin by saying that I was really l...John, <br /><br />Let me begin by saying that I was really looking forward to reading this and this is the first chance I've had. I was away for a period in Chicago and just returned.<br /><br />I thoroughly enjoyed your selection of courtroom images from all of my favorite science fiction series. Terrific!<br /><br />Your concept of courtroom drama and justice had me considering the concept as a universal concept by all kinds of aliens and races, human of course among them. We certainly would like to believe there is a sense of justice innate to all creatures.<br /><br />Boy, speaking of ST:TOS, how many Star Trek series or science fiction series in general do you see mention the Code Of Hammurabi or the Magna Carta. TOS was simply way ahead of its time. Brilliant writing.<br /><br />Great observations and analysis by you concerning the minimazation of humanity by technology. <br /><br />You and I both love that theme whether tackled in ST:TOS or Space:1999. The theme of humanity's relationship to technology is always an intriguing one. Further, I would add, the idea of DNA has allowed the computer to utilize ourselves against us. It's brilliant really.<br /><br />Anyway, enslavement by computers or technology certainly is something in play throughout TOS and your examples are great. You even see elements of this in something like What Are Little Girls Made Of? or even The Enemy Within as a result of technology's failure and ultimately the damage caused by it right?<br /><br />Something else in your post had me thinking about why ST:TOS was so successful and so brilliant. It managed, apart from terrific colors and sets and designs and all of these productions qualities, to contain real messages and thought provoking scripts. This was largely the result of strong science fiction writers being involved, whereby sf writers were not at the heart of the ongoing ST franchise. <br /><br />But, apart from these complex moral, ethical dilemmas ST:TOS managed to build all of this great science fiction and commentary into thoroughly engaging, entertaining story structures. It was largely successful for three seasons. The other SF franchises seemed less successful in compounding these two areas as one. We love whodunits and mystery and the creators of ST;TOS gave it all to us. We had our cake and we could eat it too.<br /><br />Your examnple of BG made me realize another element to both ST:TOS and the original classic BG that I loved and that was the wonderful performances. The actors made these characters their own and each was distinct and created with a real sincerity and belief in their respective roles.<br /><br />Your Analytical Guide To BG will eventually be my next purchase. I have Exploring Space:1999 and The Films of John Carpenter and I suspect it will be a must read for me next following these two exceptional books [which I have enjoyed immensely but not completed].<br /><br />One of the terrific aspects of your writing in all of these books is your incredible grasp of film and television history and how it has influenced and been applied to the subject for which you write. This is something I am building upon, but for which I have some ways to go.<br /><br />So part of ST:TNG's problem is the writing. It doesn't have the same level of quality as the writing supplied by science fiction writers from the Original Series.<br /><br />And like the previous comments I do agree ST:TNG was significant and influential, as you said especially in syndication, but ST:TNG is still not nearly as good as the original series and I've heard people argue that it is. Sorry, but ST:TOS rules mightily for some of the reasons argued previously.<br /><br />As far as why it was Chief O'Brien may have had something to do with the fact Colm Meaney was probably the finest actor in that cast. Many of the actors were great but I believe Colm was one of the best.<br /><br />Wonderful article John. I really enjoyed it. All the best SFFSFFhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04256589316922398158noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12380553.post-88046253154091428192010-10-17T11:21:42.877-04:002010-10-17T11:21:42.877-04:00Will,
Okay. I was just kidding -- I know we'...Will,<br /><br />Okay. I was just kidding -- I know we're "good" despite our Trekker differences!<br /><br />We should do a joint article on this, maybe the pros and cons of TNG. I could do the cons and you could do the pros, or to be really tricky, we could switch it around...<br /><br />Let me know!<br /><br />best,<br />JKMJohn Kenneth Muirhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15629979615332893780noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12380553.post-58595116894924071772010-10-16T17:21:32.093-04:002010-10-16T17:21:32.093-04:00I could never hate you! Though I will use you as E...I could never hate you! Though I will use you as Exhibit A in my article!!!!!!!! (Kidding). . .<br /><br />We need to do a joint article sometime and talk about this. You and I have had this discussion before many times about other Trek shows too.<br /><br />No worries! I don't hate!<br />WillWillhttp://secureimmaturity.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12380553.post-16361986319495383642010-10-16T13:38:41.821-04:002010-10-16T13:38:41.821-04:00Hi Will!
Glad I inspired you, if not in the way t...Hi Will!<br /><br />Glad I inspired you, if not in the way that I might have wished or actually intended. <br /><br />I should note, there are episodes of TNG I like very much ("Q Who," "Yesterday's Enterprise," "The Inner Light," etc.). <br /><br />So while I'm down on the show overall, I do appreciate it when it works on all thrusters...or even half-thrusters sometimes (I have an unusual and all-together inexplicable affection for "The Royale"...). <br /><br />But you're right to say that Next Gen was influential. It succeeded in syndication and opened up the floodgates for more syndicated sci-fi (War of the Worlds), fantasy (Hercules), horror (Friday the 13th) and even crime dramas (The Untouchables). <br /><br />So I don't quibble with the idea that the show had an impact. I just tend to find many episodes boring and kind of canned (and safe...) when I go back and re-visit them. <br /><br />Now, this is opposed to TOS episodes, which still hold up as exciting and thought-provoking after forty years.<br /><br />But okay, I'm likely just inspiring you to hate me even more! :)<br /><br />And I love your description of how The X-Files used the court room milieu. Very insightful and interesting, my friend!<br /><br />All my best,<br />JohnJohn Kenneth Muirhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15629979615332893780noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12380553.post-41263723837813102422010-10-16T13:21:29.269-04:002010-10-16T13:21:29.269-04:00Well, I was going to comment on the article but no...Well, I was going to comment on the article but now I have to go into TNG defense mode (EXTERMINATE! EXTERMINATE!):<br /><br />John: I can't exactly agree with your take that TNG is "as challenging and stimulating as oatmeal". Just because something doesn't age well (and TNG does NOT) does not mean that it doesn't have purpose or DID have an impact.<br /><br />You know what. . .nevermind. I'm going to do an article about this on SI. Too many ideas. Thank you for inspiring me! Haha. But let's just say I agree to disagree with you. More later.<br /><br />What I loved about the X-Files finale was that the court and trial itself was used simply as a front, continuing the theme that sometimes the government will use it's own devices to cover it's crimes. It would have been easy to kill Mulder. . .but everyone always felt he'd be a martyr. . .so they decided to use the court system to a)provide 'justice' for a murder that, scientifically, could not occur, and b)use the expectations of a court room, i.e. making a case, and using AGAINST Mulder. Mulder and Skinner would explain the entire conspiracy and look like fools for doing so. In a sense, the trial was legal and acceptable but used in the wrong way completely. Loved that. Thanks for mentioning that. It's not often you see the trial itself as the villain. Usually the court system is the beacon of hope for the wrongly accussed. In X-Files case. . .it was just another hurdle.Willhttp://secureimmaturity.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12380553.post-7518043574884435942010-10-16T10:20:28.984-04:002010-10-16T10:20:28.984-04:00Hello, my friends,
Le0pard13: You hit the nail on...Hello, my friends,<br /><br />Le0pard13: You hit the nail on the head: "A Matter of Perspective" was bland and trite, a cowardly interpretation of a great film. <br /><br />This episode might be Exhibit A as to why I'm so frequently down on TNG: it's about as challenging and stimulating as oatmeal. <br /><br />Here the writers and producers had the model and the lesson of Rashomon and yet still hashed out a thoroughly safe, thoroughly predictable court-room drama. It would have been better if Riker hadn't been so much a white knight. He could have been guilty of bad judgment, at least, if not murder. Maybe he did flirt. Maybe he did want to bang Apgar's wife. That would have made Riker and the episode itself more interesting and more human. <br /><br />And I agree with you about the justice system here. I still believe it's the best there is, but as you say, if you get to either end of affluence or poverty,the system doesn't really work the way it should. <br /><br />Woodchuckgod: Thank you for remembering Farscape. My wife and I have just begin a retrospective of the show. Last night we watched the premiere episode, but I look forward to getting to the episode you named here.<br /><br />Trick or Treat Pete: I LOVE Heavy Metal. I really need to watch it again and write a review. Thanks for remembering it!<br /><br />best to all,<br />JKMJohn Kenneth Muirhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15629979615332893780noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12380553.post-17377854608411581812010-10-15T23:52:39.181-04:002010-10-15T23:52:39.181-04:00As soon as I read this, my mind immediately went t...As soon as I read this, my mind immediately went to the film Heavy Metal and to Captain Sternn<br />Captain Sternn<br /><br />"Based on original art and story by Bernie Wrightson. On a space station, a square jawed space captain named Lincoln F. Sternn (voiced by Eugene Levy) is on trial on numerous serious charges (and one moving violation) presented by the prosecutor (voiced by John Vernon). Pleading "not guilty" against the advice of his rat-faced lawyer (voiced by Joe Flaherty), Sternn explains to his astonished lawyer that he expects to be acquitted because he bribed a witness, Hanover Fiste, to praise his character. Fiste takes the stand, but his perjury is subverted when the Loc-Nar, now the size of a marble, causes him to blurt out the truth about Sternn's evil deeds until he angrily denounces Sternn (Sternn is nothin' but a low-down, double-dealin', back-stabbin', larcenous perverted WORM!! Hanging's too good for him! Burning's too good for him! He should be torn into little-bitty pieces and buried alive!). Fiste rants with such fury that he changes into a muscled giant, and chases Sternn throughout the station, breaking through bulkheads and wreaking havoc. Eventually, he corners Sternn, receives his promised payoff for his part in the escape plan, and promptly shrinks back to his gangly original form. Sternn then pulls a lever opening a trapdoor under Fiste, and the Loc-Nar reenters an atmosphere with Fiste's bodiless flaming hand still clinging to it."<br />Dreaded Dreams<br />Petunia ScareumAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12380553.post-79745073408731956462010-10-15T10:32:19.860-04:002010-10-15T10:32:19.860-04:00As an addendum : when considering punishment, my m...As an addendum : when considering punishment, my mind naturally drifted to Gan from Blake's 7 and his limiter device. In the course of doing a little idle reading I came across this interesting character analysis, which I submit for collective consideration.<br /><br />http://www.kaldorcity.com/features/articles/B7gan.htmlAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12380553.post-86950477755196546422010-10-15T00:24:16.574-04:002010-10-15T00:24:16.574-04:00Some excellent examples there, I must say.
I'...Some excellent examples there, I must say.<br /><br />I'll toss out one for the table from Farscape, the second season episode "The Ugly Truth", which also played with the multiple viewpoints 'Rashoman' styled story and a pair of disturbing developments to ice the dramatic cake.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12380553.post-69236191703595608842010-10-14T17:48:31.848-04:002010-10-14T17:48:31.848-04:00This is a fantastic method for looking back at sci...This is a fantastic method for looking back at sci-fi series plus examining the various systems and processes of justice as their creators envisioned them. I can't recall the news article I read once that looked at Star Trek's jurisprudence (TOS & TNG), but its legal writer found it fundamentally fair, IIRC (except for letting old friends participate a little too freely).<br /><br />I'm glad to see you presented the ST:TNG's <i>Rashomon</i>-like episode, here, and that you didn't let it off the hook. Viewers who've seen the Kurosawa classic will have the same reaction, I suspect. That episode is trite and made to be much too bland. I often think of Christopher Nolan's <i>Mememto</i> when examining <i>Rashomon</i> and memory when it comes to locating the truth in an investigation or trial of justice.<br /><br />I'd like to think the ST:DS9 writers would have turned something in more nuanced, if they had had a shot at this episode. Speaking of DS9, great _crime_ inclusion with <i>Tribunal</i>. I'd suggest season four's <i>Hard Time</i> as a great _punishment_ segment where O'Brien (of course) has 20 years of prison life implanted into his mind for espionage crimes. It's a nice companion piece for that new OUTER LIMITS ep (<i>The Sentence</i> in '94).<br /><br />And kudos for mentioning that X-Files finale. For me, having drifted away from the series after Mulder/Duchovny left, coming to it for the end was made that much sweeter by how Carter employed "<i>...the milieu of the court room</i>". Great stuff.<br /><br />As to the questions you pose at the end, I go back and forth about the American confrontational system of the justice. For the most part, it seems to work... till you go to either end of the socioeconomic status scale. Then, wealth (or the lack of it) plays too big a part on the outcome. Exclusion of evidence (on either side) can have another impact. Remember, winning the case is the goal -- justice (if it comes), is the byproduct. Plus, as much as I want to see someone pay for their crimes (especially if it happens to me or my own--assuming it is the right person convicted), placing them into a penal system that for the most part produces someone worst (by the end of their sentence) and likely to repeat their acts doesn't appear to a solution.<br /><br />I wished I had better solutions for all of these. Sorry to be so long-winded. But, this is a great post that sparks reaction, thought, and hopefully discourse. Thanks for this, John.le0pard13https://www.blogger.com/profile/09421175808461787862noreply@blogger.com