tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12380553.post467021204104945815..comments2024-03-28T14:49:36.133-04:00Comments on John Kenneth Muir's Reflections on Cult Movies and Classic TV: CULT TV FLASHBACK # 104: Star Trek: Voyager - The Early Seasons (1995-1996)John Kenneth Muirhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15629979615332893780noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12380553.post-13614902308853657202010-03-18T10:45:22.416-04:002010-03-18T10:45:22.416-04:00I've always considered Voyager to be as underr...I've always considered Voyager to be as underrated as Deep Space Nine is overrated. As with any show that lasts (at least) seven seasons, a bit of viewer fatigue sets in. I'd never sit throught viewing all seven seasons of Next Generation either. Many fans consider the fifth season of Voyager to be the best ( I agree, as it's the only season of the show I bought on DVD). Voyager's holodeck ep "Bride of Chaotica" (spoofing Flash Gordon style serials) was so much more fun than ST:NG's often tired holodeck stories.<br /><br />The early eps of Voyager were inconsistent, but the pilot remains the best of all the Trek pilots. I found Kes to be a boring character. As with Dax on ST:DS9, what was initially an interesting concept quickly became boring. Her early departure did spare viewers from an anticipated long drawn-out (and dreary) death. Seven of Nine added a much needed jolt of energy to the show.<br /><br />As a huge Space:1999 fan, its great to see Johnny Byrne's views on Voyager. Many critics find S:99's characters to be lacking, so I thought he might be more sympathetic to these characters.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12380553.post-57056348169588926162010-03-18T05:28:28.592-04:002010-03-18T05:28:28.592-04:00William: I agree very much. The Year in hell shoul...William: I agree very much. The Year in hell should have been a season, it should have been a tone I think the whole show had and it should not have had a reset button!<br /><br />I always felt that Voyager would have succeeded more if there was a less.. laid back approach to writing their struggle back home. There should have been more pressures that banded the characters together. I remember in the first season (and this was when alarm bells chimed for me) when they go to a planet - one of their first I think that a) used the same matt backdrop as an alpha quadrant episode, b) they all spoke English - yes, TV conceit, and yes, universal translators etc, but still breaks the premise structure somewhat of trying to make you believe they were far from home, c) it had a dog in it - see point b.<br /><br />I just never felt there was enough attempt to make you feel they were far from home, lost in the real Final Frontier. It all felt to Alpha Quadrant - too much need to ensure success by not breaking the successful Trek formula. <br /><br />Thanks for the reply John - glad we all agree! Wasted, great opportunity. Held together, for me, by Mulgrew and Picardo mainly.James McLeanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05883672062720983648noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12380553.post-8854614826503726342010-03-17T16:21:38.487-04:002010-03-17T16:21:38.487-04:00To add to James' comment (and Enterprise took ...To add to James' comment (and Enterprise took my next point to the NEXT level) is that when ideas were dry (well, ideas in the formulaic Star Trek canon. . .I think Voyager could run 16 more years with good ideas that are non-Trek-like) they would just go (or so I imagine), 'um, so, a kid Q comes on the ship and. . .um. . .Seven of Nine gets NAKED! or 'so, part of Seven of Nine's past is that she gets assimilated but while NAKED!' or 'well, this Kim thing isn't working. . .let's get her hooked up with Chakotay. . .and she'll be NAKED!' It never ended. It was lame. <br /><br />Garrett Wang, during an interview on podcast GeeksOn, said that Kate Mulgrew hated the 7 of 9 thing so much that she refused to talk to Jeri Ryan as an act of defiance. Wang said that it made work so very, very, very hard for four years because the two wouldn't even look at each other. I wouldn't have insulted the actress myself but I, as a female lead on a once respected franchise, would have been PIIIIIIIIST too. It negated anything she accomplished as the woman of the future.<br /><br />God. . .thinking about Voyager's potential makes me so angry especially when they would sometimes dip into territory that seemed so brilliant. 'Year in Hell' should have been one whole season long and the crew in 'Equinox' should have been half or all of Voyager's crew (minus some of the evil). Argh.<br /><br />Oh, and James, Moore came on to Voyager after DS9 ended and quickly left since it sucked (in fact, it partially damaged his and Brannon Braga's relationship). But he did leave the show with an episode called 'Barge of the Dead' which was brilliant.William Johnsonhttp://secureimmaturity.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12380553.post-71377122136946137322010-03-16T18:06:28.055-04:002010-03-16T18:06:28.055-04:00James:
I agree very much with your comment. It w...James:<br /><br />I agree very much with your comment. It was absurd to, in the last few episodes, suddenly pair 7 of 9 off with Chakotay. It was an insult, and we all knew how phony (and arbitrary...) it rang. For both characters, actually.<br /><br />I also concur that the show rested on its Star Trek laurels, to its ultimate detriment.<br /><br />Great comment! Thanks!<br /><br />best,<br />JKMJohn Kenneth Muirhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15629979615332893780noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12380553.post-86199701310519715672010-03-16T07:06:01.267-04:002010-03-16T07:06:01.267-04:00A bit late to the party. Great article, and I agre...A bit late to the party. Great article, and I agree with Johnny Bryne, there was no sense of urgency, the show sat too smugly on its formulaic franchise and never really pushed the concept. I recall this lack of shaping in Voyager was one of the reasons Ron Moore jumped ship.<br /><br />While on reruns the episodes are actually fairly enjoyable time filers, what annoyed me with Voyager was it was pretty much the final straw in franchise laziness. When I heard the premise, I thought "Battlestar Galactica - a lone ship, fleeing, trying to survive.. probably having to search for foods, refits.. ship will need to be customised and jury rigged as the tools to repair a Fed starship won't be available.." and it was just Star Trek again.<br /><br />While I quite liked 7 of 9, the ultimate insult that reminded me how far Star Trek had fallen from its proposed ideology was the shift in the Doctor/Seven's relationship to pair her off with Chakotay. I recall Picardo saying at one point the people above felt the Doctor was too old and ugly for audiences to want to see paired off with beautiful Seven. For a world that promoted equality, respect and a future free from intolerance, this seemed a stupid and insulting stance to take. If the fact they've never had one single lead represent male homosexuality wasn't enough to question whether the show was too far removed from what it preached, that decision really did just nail Star Trek's coffin for me. <br /><br />In a decade where B5, Lexx, Farscape et al were trying to break new Science fiction boundaries, the mainstream TV sci-fi flagship was just coasting. A bitter disappointment in its potential, though not terrible TV to watch on a Sunday afternoon.James McLeanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05883672062720983648noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12380553.post-33066792965502172012010-03-13T13:43:24.035-05:002010-03-13T13:43:24.035-05:00Hey William,
I love your comment!
I'm as s...Hey William,<br /><br />I love your comment! <br /><br />I'm as shocked as anybody that I don't enjoy DS9 anymore. I always loved it when it was on, and was of the opinion that it was the hands down, absolute best of all Trek spin-offs. <br /><br />I lived by that belief through the latter half-of-the-nineties and all through the last decade. <br /><br />Then I went back and watched 'em again recently and didn't enjoy them much (except for the war episodes in the final seasons). Believe me, I wish this wasn't so!! :)<br /><br />I agree very strongly with you in terms of Voyager. That would have been amazing if the ship had returned home in Year Six, and the crew had time to "re-adjust" for a season. That would have been a brilliant, unexpected curveball. As it stands, the ending now is kind of underwhelming: Voyager comes home. Fireworks. The End. (And I still think my idea about Kes dying would have added a touch of humanity to the finale too...). <br /><br />I also agree with you about Voyager becoming a kind of Star Trek bubble in space, and that the Star Trekness of the whole enterprise is the very thing that brings it down. <br /><br />You can see the writers, in Year One and Year Two, trying to break through that bubble, but by mid-season three, the effort was a bust. Beyond that, the show just gets really bad (which is why I too stopped watching it...).<br /><br />And the overruse of the Borg was a big mistake.<br /><br />Anyway, I enjoyed reading your thoughts on the show. Drop by anytime!<br /><br />best,<br />JKMJohn Kenneth Muirhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15629979615332893780noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12380553.post-31615101387011762852010-03-13T13:27:27.946-05:002010-03-13T13:27:27.946-05:00Hey John,
I am probably going to massively disagr...Hey John,<br /><br />I am probably going to massively disagree with you on the DS9 issues you brought up in the essay and in your comments but maybe we can do a seperate dialogue about that some other time.<br /><br />In regards to Voyager: I judge a lot of things, in terms of entertainment, on if I can watch them with my dad. My dad is VERY picky and very JUDGEMENTAL. It just comes with his age. He was a teenager and an adult during some of the greatest periods in television history. Now, my dad likes Star Trek. We used to watch TNG together and we were aggresively into the final four years of DS9. We did, in fact, watch the first two seasons of Voyager but we both kind of looked at each other during season 2, he was in his early 40s, me in my high school teens, and said, 'what else is on?'<br /><br />Voyager, I agree, stands out as having a wondrous first season. The potential was so high especially with the Maquis which was, oddly enough, very nuanced and interesting in TNG (a show known for it's generalities and metaphors as oppossed to live, living breathing characters-organizations). But alas. . .<br /><br />My biggest issue was with the Star Trek-ness of it. A friend of mine who does the GeeksOn podcast said that after episode two the uniforms should have come off. Like the show itself within the Star Trek mythos, Voyager became a bubble in space. Inside the ship was this strange Star Trek world completely alien to the surroundings the showrunners put them in. The Kazon were just Klingons with lice. And when all the ideas ran out: BORG!!!!!!<br /><br />And since you knew the show would last seven years, since that was part of the template of Trek shows, you knew the show would end after seven years (in fictional time). The creators never messed with anything temporarily either and when time was running out and there was still a lot of time to go for the crew to get home: Kes is back and she whisked us away 10,000 light years! Yeah! Mark fof another 10 years.<br /><br />Wouldn't it have been cool if they got home in year six and then year seven was them adjusting. And for a show that is all about GETTING HOME (and why do the humans get preference on home. . .there are other species from different worlds right?) they don't even show them getting home. The final shot is of them returning to Earth in space. Waaaaah?<br /><br />Anyways. I guess all this means I agree with you on the first few seasons. Sorry for the blathering! Great job.William Johnsonhttp://secureimmaturity.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12380553.post-66790503442077357572010-03-12T07:59:50.209-05:002010-03-12T07:59:50.209-05:00Le0pard13 and The Sci-Fi Fanatic:
Thank you both ...Le0pard13 and The Sci-Fi Fanatic:<br /><br />Thank you both for your comments and thoughts on Voyager.<br /><br />You know, I used to realy enjoy DS9 and The Next Generation but when I watched several episodes recently I found them virtually unwatchable (especially Next Gen). I just couldn't believe how bad they were in terms of acting, storyline and even visualization (again, especially next gen).<br /><br />I turned to Voyager in despair, and sort of re-evaluated it with new eyes. I liked it more than I ever had, while still seeing how flawed it was. <br /><br />I still need to watch Lost from start to finish someday. I turned away in Season Two, picked it up in Seasn Three, then lost track in Season 4 when my son was born and sleep was at a premium in my house! :)<br /><br />best to both,<br />JKMJohn Kenneth Muirhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15629979615332893780noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12380553.post-19168902529872679662010-03-11T19:40:34.745-05:002010-03-11T19:40:34.745-05:00John, I have all of the box sets and look forward ...John, I have all of the box sets and look forward to watching it myself someday from start to finish. It's funny how DS9 and Voyager have their advocates and detractors. Your thoughtful look back from time to time has me cautious about the series, but I'll go forth just the same.<br /><br />I love your final remarks because I felt they were so applicable to where I was with Lost. I gave up after the end of Season Five. It was so unfulfilling and predictably unpredictably stupid. I have no plans to watch Season 6 and for many of the same reasons listed here. Strong start, but...<br /><br />As always, a terrific read and one that has me looking forward to some aspects of Voyager.SFFhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04256589316922398158noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12380553.post-4577885746893855172010-03-10T21:47:10.143-05:002010-03-10T21:47:10.143-05:00This is great look back, John. When Voyager came o...This is great look back, John. When Voyager came out, I had high hopes with it. I agree with you that the early episodes could be feast or famine with original ideas. I wasn't a fan of Janeway at first, more for that voice. But, given her different style of command (the gender differences) began to heighten my curiosity and appreciation of her as a leader. The latter seasons seem to have had the need to sex it up more for ratings (which is always what the studio desires, let's face it). And I probably watched it more for the catsuit wonder (yes, I can be such a <i>guy</i>).<br /><br />The other factor that caused to me to hold back on Voyager was that it wasn't DS9. For me, DS9 started meekly and grew better because it grew darker and more complex because of its politics (and striving to be the less clean and neat version of its older sibling, The Next Generation). I guess I appreciated its noirish take The Federation. That, and Capt. Sisko (Avery Brooks) grew into his own with the role. But, I digress...<br /><br />I really liked your summary of the early Voyager seasons, JKM. The episodes you highlighted were spot-on, and for the reasons you deftly cite. Great review. Thanks for this, my friend.le0pard13https://www.blogger.com/profile/09421175808461787862noreply@blogger.com