tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12380553.post3343519437339108696..comments2024-03-27T10:27:59.266-04:00Comments on John Kenneth Muir's Reflections on Cult Movies and Classic TV: Ask JKM a Question: What is Camp? And Why Did It Disappear?John Kenneth Muirhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15629979615332893780noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12380553.post-25820366377126484882016-06-17T10:53:47.816-04:002016-06-17T10:53:47.816-04:00What a great question, and you gave it an excellen...What a great question, and you gave it an excellent and well though out explanation. I agree, camp done well is a lot of fun and thought provoking. Camp done badly, well that is just painful.<br /><br />I believe that camp is entirely based on artist intent. But Cheese or goofiness, that is a side effect of time and circumstances. Star Trek TOS and TNG may have cheesy moments and goofiness. But aren't campy. "Moonraker" and "Man with Golden Gun" yep, I'd say they were shooting for campy most of the time.Roman J. Martelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09545497713474664555noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12380553.post-65570145894280641582016-06-11T15:34:57.665-04:002016-06-11T15:34:57.665-04:00There are cycles of style because people get tired...There are cycles of style because people get tired of one approach and adopt another. Decades can be defined by this approach. The 50's, 70's, and 90's favored a more toned down style. Slow pop songs, greens and browns, flatter hair styles.While the 60's, 80's, and 2000's were bigger and louder. Energetic pop, red and blues (a color combo rarely seen in nature), bigger hair.<br /><br />I've heard that introverted people tend to favor more drab fashion and music. It's not surprising that movie and music geeks tend to adore the 70's. And yes, the culture of "big" decades tends to be very flamboyant and attention getting, which has the effect of making the period's fashion/art seem very silly and garish not long after the period has ended. Many hair styles of the 60's and 80's are either now uncommon or practically non-existant these days. Star Trek did follow these trends; blacks and bright primaries in the 60's, browns and dull blues/yellows in the 70's, and then crimson and white in the 80's original crew films/blacks, deep reds, turquoise, and gold for TNG in 1987.Ferylhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01336057631877941839noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12380553.post-6475118722726980622016-06-08T09:17:22.239-04:002016-06-08T09:17:22.239-04:00I agree. But the second year did at times... "...I agree. But the second year did at times... "Devil's Moon", for instance.<br /><br />Using the Brits' common definition of "camp" I think that episodes like "War Games" and "The Last Enemy" would certainly fall into that category. I can hear it: "The aliens are so camp!"Barry Smighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02464450751543573690noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12380553.post-25364133839055471622016-06-07T22:55:44.132-04:002016-06-07T22:55:44.132-04:00I do not think that Space:1999 season one, at leas...I do not think that Space:1999 season one, at least, could be considered "camp".<br /><br />SGBSGBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07137406272001346149noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12380553.post-39724372336394887682016-06-07T15:40:41.345-04:002016-06-07T15:40:41.345-04:00Hi John,
An interesting subject. William Dozier, ...Hi John,<br /><br />An interesting subject. William Dozier, producer of TV's <b>Batman</b>, said at the time something like, 'audiences are more sophisticated today... they'll no longer buy grown men running around in tights'.<br /><br />I don't think that <b>Space: 1999</b> avoided being "camp" because it took on muted colour palettes -- the two <b>Star Trek</b> pilot shows had muted colours, not that colour intensity would have been the linchpin there, too -- since it didn't really "go there", although the second season did. Cynics would say that a comatosed state hardly grants camp.<br /><br />As much as I like the series, I think that <b>Space</b> fell into "cheese", in some ways -- almost from its first run.<br /><br />Writer David Gerrold in the early 1970s said 'in about twenty years Star Trek will be considered as camp'.<br /><br />Time can make something campy every bit as much as the attitude of the artists.<br /><br />Of course the argument becomes horribly complicated through subjectivity... as a commenter above touched upon.<br /><br />Intelligent analysis as always, John, especially on the issue of "what constitutes 'camp'?"<br /><br />Food for thought: What is "cheese" and what is "camp", and how are they different from one another? Are they different, ultimately?"Barry Smighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02464450751543573690noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12380553.post-88475468816864344252016-06-07T13:20:52.583-04:002016-06-07T13:20:52.583-04:00I wrote this once:
Camp is deceptively easy to wr...I wrote this once:<br /><br /><i>Camp is deceptively easy to write and almost impossible to pull off. It's based on a broadly winking compact between the performer and the audience that not only does nothing on the screen really matter but also that we're fools for ever thinking it did. Done well, camp can deconstruct a genre to reveal the eternal human truths underneath and make us laugh in self-recognition. But done poorly, as unfortunately it most often is, the result is an undercooked dish of lazy contempt that's hard to swallow.</i>Mythical Monkeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11330587602682498820noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12380553.post-6596285119891684072016-06-07T09:47:28.932-04:002016-06-07T09:47:28.932-04:00A nice breakdown of a tricky term. I remember in t...A nice breakdown of a tricky term. I remember in the late 80s talking to a co-worker about Star Trek:TNG. She said, "Well, the original series was very campy." This took me aback, because I never saw it that way. Although there were several campy shows on the air at the same time, I don't think Roddenberry, et al, were trying to be anything but serious. It's just that, in the late 80s, we were looking back at a style of theatricality that had faded away from movies and TV. Looking at TNG today, it too could be seen as more stage-y and theatrical than what we are used to now.Neal Phttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17053148427058126745noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12380553.post-20315342649754257442016-06-07T04:39:58.005-04:002016-06-07T04:39:58.005-04:00I definitely agree that it is difficult to do well...I definitely agree that it is difficult to do well...but when done well, it is amazing! Optimistic Existentialisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11507986337866049924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12380553.post-14926393963534328742016-06-06T18:45:14.268-04:002016-06-06T18:45:14.268-04:00The '66 Batman's camp style affected all o...The '66 Batman's camp style affected all of TV in the late 60's. Even my favorite "serious" show, The Man From Uncle, felt it's ripples.<br />I loved the bat labels. Now I find them funny and cute but when I was a kid I really did want to know what everything did, or what it was. Especially in the batcave.<br /><br /> This is a great site on tumblr that lists all bat labels used in the '66 series, with pictures of them:<br /><br />https://batlabels.tumblr.com/Zvonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14248402757083992055noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12380553.post-80455542802138338322016-06-06T16:50:00.084-04:002016-06-06T16:50:00.084-04:00John, extremely interesting and honest thoughts on...John, extremely interesting and honest thoughts on "camp". It unfortunately, infected both season two and season three of Lost In Space(1965-1968). I do not enjoy "camp" when it is used in a drama.<br /><br />SGB SGBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07137406272001346149noreply@blogger.com